Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: And we're back.
I say that because we haven't recorded an episode in a long time.
It's true.
I believe we could call this season two. Welcome to season two of a Brit and a Yank Talk Business. I'm Stuart Amadon. I own page 50 Marketing and Media. And with me across the pond, as they say, is the Tom Chaldecott, owner of Knox Thomas. Tom, it's so. It's always nice to visit with you. Isn't it nice?
[00:00:31] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm glad we're starting.
We can make this consistent.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: I know. Hopefully we can one day. Hopefully we can. Yeah.
It's wonderful that we're putting this illusion together for our audience that this is the only time we talk. It's wonderful to see you again, Tom, when in reality we just had an hour long conversation before we even started recording. I love that. So we're bringing Brittany Yank into season two.
We got lots of positive feedback from people that we visited with over the years who were like, hey, this is helpful.
When are you making more? And so we decided to go ahead and pull the trigger, launch into season two.
The heartbeat of Brittany ached is that we're just guys who have started businesses that are creating content centered around that because we just don't see a lot of it on the Internet. We just don't see a lot of Christian business pods in the space. And so we wanted to try and, and help facilitate that. And the feedback that we got was good. And so we're gonna keep grinding through this thing.
So season two, we got a couple of different episode topics planned, but we're gonna kick off today with when to fight.
When do Christians go in and fight? And Tom and I, you and I have talked about that a little bit.
And obviously we're talking about this in a business context, but we're also just talking about this in a faith context too.
So I thought it would be fun if we started off by maybe like sharing a couple of anecdote, maybe some stories about times where we have realized, oh, it's time to punch. So you know what I mean?
[00:02:11] Speaker B: One of my first questions, though, I suppose this is a similar piece, like what does it mean? Because we're not talking about picking up a literal sword or in America, you're allowed to own guns.
So what do we actually mean when we're talking about fighting?
Because obviously there's a colossal spectrum there.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So I would talk about, I would frame it for this conversation inside of the context of going to war in business. Okay.
When is the point where you look across.
You know, you look off the bow of your ship at your competitors out there, and you say, all right, we're going after them.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: You're talking, taking ground, proactive. You're not hiding in a castle, building your moats.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: No, that's right. Like, we're going to launch. We're going to go forward. Teddy Roosevelt says something really helpful. I think he says, if you're the one rule. I'm reading his autobiography right now, and I find it amazing.
He said, there's one rule that you need to worry about in this context, I'm paraphrasing a little bit, and that is no soft punches.
He says, if you're gonna swing, you swing to hit, you swing to hit hard. Okay?
You don't pull your punches. In other words, you don't punch softly. If you're gonna go to war, you go all the way and you push as hard as you possibly can. So, like, anecdotally, I own a marketing company, and when we first started, there was no one serving our area.
That's partly why we started it, because our area was underserved, and we said, okay, great. Well, we'll do this. We will be the ones who serve.
And we were pretty successful pretty quickly because there was a vacuum of marketing services in our immediate surrounding area.
And what did that do that made a bunch of other people start doing what we were doing?
Like, if a lot of other shops popped up around us, none of them exist anymore, but they popped up and they would kind of go after our market share a little bit. And that was in business specifically. That was one of the things that. That was always the, okay, got it. We're gonna fight. For me was whenever I saw people actively going after our client base, like, the moment that that happened, I was like, okay, got it. This is war. We're gonna turn on the afterburners and just go hard for the next little season and see what winds up going through.
[00:04:53] Speaker B: What does that mean? Because I can think of an anecdote where I'm on the other side of that.
[00:04:58] Speaker A: Where you're going where you're, like, chasing the market share.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: You know, I'm not explicitly trying to target, like, this is a competitor. I'm going to go after their work. But it's. It's happened, and I've kind of heard about it after the fact, and it's been kind of funny. But, like, when you say you've responded to someone kind of trying to come after your customers, what does that mean? What does that look like? What were the consequences of that.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: So what I mean, whenever I say that is I am going to be hyper intentional with that particular customer and the customers surrounding them. And I'm also going to examine our services and offerings provided and make sure that we blow everybody else out of the water. Yeah, that's, that's what that means. So it's not necessarily that I'm going to start a slander campaign.
You know, I think that's, I think that's the wrong way to handle that in a business sense. And I know business owners that have done it. They take to the socials, they rant about how mean their competitors are, and they lose then because they're now positioning themselves in a defensive stance and the only thing they can do is hope to hold ground. And they never will. They just won't. If anything, they're giving you as their competitor the audience that you wanted in the first place.
They're promoting you. They're saying there are competitors out there, there are other options out there. So when I say I go to war, maybe the best way to explain it is I spend a lot of time assessing and polishing the guns.
I make sure that what we have destroys competitors offerings.
I assess our staff, I assess our products, I assess our processes, and I look at it and say, what are we doing? Is it working? And how do we make it more effective? And I also go hard in our direct marketing systems. Right? So if I know that there's blood in the water, like if I know that somebody's come in and they're chasing my competitors or chasing my client base, then I say, okay, great, got it. And I start hitting the socials harder and I start hitting our email campaigns harder and I start hitting our. Because what I'm trying to do is get out ahead of them with my ships.
I'm trying to strategically position myself in such a way that now they can't get access. And so far the Lord has rewarded that strategy really, really well. Really, really well.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: So, and thinking about, okay, so what does that look like kind of tangibly in the office? I can think of kind of two immediate levers. I'm just wondering if you can either think of any more or unpack it that, you know, what's the artillery? Okay, so I would pose the two. That's the two that come to mind for me is one innovation. And that could be about how, how you, how you manage processes internally or how you can deliver something that's particularly novel to the market. I mean, we've innovated and we've given stuff away for free, which has really agitated the market. So you've got innovation on one arm and then on the other, the other side. And the opportunity in the UK is fantastic for this is just working hard.
So would you say that they're kind of the two main pieces of artillery, or would you say that there's more?
[00:08:16] Speaker A: So I would say yes.
I would agree with both of those things, like, innovate like crazy and agitate the market. Like, I think that those are two great strategies to keep yourself front and center, top of mind for client base. Because again, if your enemy competitors are talking about you in a negative way, they're still talking about you.
They're still bringing you up in conversations with other people. And even if those conversations are wholly negative about you, they're still about you.
And inside of that potential client, if they're going to do their due diligence and do it properly, they're at least going to say, maybe I should just see what those guys are about.
Maybe I should just have a conversation. And I would also say that the context of war, especially for Christians, but the context of war in business should be a jolly, jovial, joyful affair, okay?
And I've done this several times with my team. Like, whenever we go in and I realize that we're about to go to war with a competitor or with a sea of competitors that have popped up, I go and I sit down with my team, my staff members, and I put a big smile on my face and I say, boys, it's about to go down. Like, get ready. And I intentionally articulate to them. I'm like, this is the kind of stuff that makes me excited, because it is. Because I know that we're gonna get better now. Yeah, I know. Like, and I tell them this, too. I'm like, guys, competition is awesome. We love competition because it makes us better.
It makes us. It forces us to grow and adapt. And so there's this intentional, joyful, jovial kind of mentality that I'm trying to cultivate around the work that we do. Because you can also do this the wrong way, right? Like, you can go to war angry.
And I'm talking about specifically in a business context, you can go to war angry where you're like, I can't believe they did that to us. Boys, you better get your stuff together. Make sure you're delivering the best product we can. Like, what a demotivating jerk.
You know, like, now you're instead of your staff members, your team members, you know, looking at the Work that they have the opportunity to do joyfully and saying, yes, we're going to do this. Yeah, we can. We can take these guys, you know, of that. Now they have fear on top of mind. They're like, if I don't do this
[00:10:58] Speaker B: right, well, they're immediately defensive as well.
So I can think of scenarios where we've created products, we've done really simple stuff like creating checklists for kind of assessment work, and we've just given them out for free. And then this has happened actually multiple times with a particular competitor who has then either directly or kind of semi, indirectly reached out to us and told us to stop doing what we're doing.
And, you know this idea that, like, as soon as you start hearing noise over here, well, that's your feedback loop. Okay, well, I'm. The target is over there. This is working. Like, let's keep pointing in that direction and let's point twice as hard.
[00:11:40] Speaker A: Yes, we're over the target. Let's go.
Yeah, Yeah, I think so.
I think that's a great point. Like, if you're getting complaints from your competition about what you're doing, that's a big sign you're doing it right.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: Yes.
Almost any feedback. You know, we're a small company. There's five of us in the team. We've been around for three years. But, like, large people in the industry know of us and they want to ask questions about why we're doing what we're doing. I'm aware of a company that's been around for a really long time, and they actually shared some of our material internally.
So all these kind of bits of noise mean that we're totally aiming in the right direction.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I think so, too. Well, and I also have a strategy, so this might sound counterintuitive, so I probably need to explain it a little bit, but I've always operated with a strategy with my competition that I'm happy to give you advice.
I'm happy to almost be a help to you.
You're trying to start this business.
That sounds great.
What can I do to help you?
Here's what we found works. I've introduced people to folks in our network that I know will be a benefit to them. Potential clients, maybe potential contractors.
I don't have an issue with that. One, because I'm a Christian and I know how God works, and he blesses his people and promises to provide and care for them so I don't have to guard industry secrets. Two, I've also found that that does make me Work harder.
Like, because I, I want to.
I'm giving away the golden eggs. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm giving away and that doesn't matter. Honestly, like, really all I'm doing is I'm saving them a Google search.
You know, it's not like a profound industry secret is held within the bowels of marketing. You know, it's general knowledge. It's available for just about anybody out there. And if it is a trade secret, it won't be for a week.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: You may as well be the person to tell them.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: Might as well.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: On the extreme example, I've said it before, we've got this app that people can use to do the assessments that we do. We built it for us to use, but we're giving it away for free now. It didn't take as long to build and someone else is going to just fill that space if we don't.
So why not it be us first and why not give it away for free? And same same with your knowledge piece. Like, I could give this piece of information away for free and it would build my reputation or I could not and look like I'm kind of defensive and hiding this stuff and precious and ruin the opportunity to build a relationship with someone.
[00:14:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think that this goes back to your innovation statement at the beginning, like, force your team to innovate. I heard a guy articulate this really, really well. I connected with him through our cold outreach system on LinkedIn and we were asking him if there were some ways that we could help him. And I just started digging through his profile and I saw him in a podcast and he said it this way.
He was like, I'm not going to try and guard trade secrets because somebody else is going to figure it out.
And so why would I try to hold.
If I'm building my whole business on this trade secret, then that one person just has to figure out that trade secret and boom, my business is sunk. He said instead, what if I'm just perpetually innovating and refining our process every day?
What if I'm just making myself? And this goes back to a book I read relatively recently called Atomic Habits. He said, what if I'm just making myself 1% better every day? Every day in the little ways. Because now that's something that my competitors could never copy. Because it's not one trade secret, it's a thousand little things that we've modified inside of our process. And he had this really fascinating expression that he said, I can't remember what his name was, now, his last name was Henry, but he had this really fascinating expression that he said, he was like, you can't steal somebody else's deadlift.
In other words, you can steal their form, you know what I mean? But you can't steal the fact that they just lifted 500 pounds.
Okay, yeah. Meaning like he's, they've worked for months and months and months and months and months to get to that point and they can pull a 500 pound deadlift. Now you can't watch them do that and now you do it.
Right. It took a long time for them to get to that point. I just think that's incredibly helpful for a business owner to be able to
[00:16:45] Speaker B: say, yes, the other thing that you've got in here. And you know, this comes back to similar conversations in that we don't believe this world is kind of a closed pie. And all these items of ammunition we're talking about are things that progress. You know, they require kind of repeat attention, constant development, constant kind of improving service.
Whereas I, you know, kind of, I'm saying that warfare isn't building moats, but often the language within business is like, how can we build a moat? How can we introduce our processes into some sort of regulation that'll slow other people's down and keep the competition out? And that isn't, it's not, it's not causing, you know, that's not competition, that's just a defensive nature that isn't going to help progress the industry. Whereas, like, if we can have this healthy level of competition where we're just, you know, all boats are rising effectively.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:41] Speaker B: So we're actually as a market serving the customer better. And how can, how can we as individuals or individual businesses be at the forefront of that? Because if we can pull that along, then all of our competitors are going to be forced to kind of follow after.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: Yes, you're going to make everything, you're going to make the whole world better.
Right. Like, you're going to, you're going to improve everything en masse. Yeah. So I think, I think the positioning that we're talking about is important for people to understand here the difference between a defensive and an offensive position.
And I would say I agree with your premise of like, don't build moats. Because taking that to its extreme, massive businesses have dumped piles of money into lobbying organizations to get laws passed that prevent their competitors from innovating and building and coming after them. And I would call that lazy business. Man, that's some laziness. Get out there and build and create and innovate. And I think that one of the great examples that we could look at right now is Elon. Like, Elon Musk is perpetually building, innovating, changing, working towards goals.
And so his businesses have just grown like crazy now. He's also getting a lot of government contracts. And that's a slightly different conversation.
Like, Tesla was built on the back of government dollars.
SpaceX works for a ton of government contracts. But I'm not talking about that as much right now as I'm talking about the aggressive innovation that we see going on inside of his industry space.
And I think that's something that we could all look at and say, hmm, should I do that? Yes, yes, you know, you should. In the systems that you have, in the mechanisms that you have.
[00:19:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the other I'm thinking about, we recently tendered for some, a pretty large food manufacturer here in the uk and we were reading through their terms and conditions pretty long, and there was some really defensive terms in there, like really horrible terms, very much anti, certainly small medium enterprises.
And my immediate response is like, well, I'm gonna deliver you a different service to which I deliver everyone else. Because this is how you're like starting the relationship.
That, that money that you're trying to claw back this way, I'm just gonna charge you over here.
So it immediately in me, like damages, kind of cross relationships, it puts people's backs up, they don't want to work with you and it causes that kind of defensiveness just to ripple out and continue like, and it only does damage.
So even if it's not reputational damage with your customers, it could be your partners that you're, you're keeping at arm's length. And they don't, they potentially don't want to work with you or they don't want to deliver you good service because you're not involved in kind of the marketplace as a collective kind of fighting forward as a single team. So it doesn't just affect direct competitors. You don't want to end up hindering yourself with people that you want to work with or potentially by being super defensive. There's a cost there that just isn't measured.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: Yes, yes. And it'll affect the mentality of your team.
Like, I think that's a great point. So if all you do is play defense all day, guess what? All your team members are learning, they're going to do that with you. What, you think that's not going to happen? Yeah, they're going to say, well, this is the philosophy of our company. Maybe they're not going to say this directly, but they're going to say, well, the way that we succeed is we play defense. So I'm going to silo myself real hard in my little space, and I'm not going to help everybody else develop. I'm not going to help anybody else innovate. I'm just gonna sit right here and guard my trade secrets.
And that's just baloney, man.
You're not gonna build well internally that way. And I would say that the way to build well throughout all of it is to do so externally, too.
The competitors are showing up. So what?
Go to war with the ones you need to go to war with.
That's fine.
Carry specific strategic plans into those systems.
But generally speaking, the way that we build forward and innovate is through comms, through building and sharing and thinking and reasoning and giving stuff away.
It's a great tactic, in my opinion.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: I would also pose in there, just thinking about, when do you go to war and what attitude do you have when you do that? Like, you're typically not viewing yourself as a victim.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: No.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: And you're observing some sort of opportunity.
You know, you're. You're either defending someone else, sticking up for them, or you see the opportunity to kind of gain ground over here and do something better with whatever that resource is, whether it's land, whether it's a customer, whatever it might look like.
It's super hot here in the UK at the moment for the UK. So it's like. It's like 40 degrees.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: It's like 104American. Yeah. It's crazy. Something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:22:59] Speaker B: So we could do two things. We could do one. We could go. We could play the victim card, which the UK is really good at, and be like, oh, we can't do anything. Like, this thing is happening to us.
We're going to complain about the weather, and then we're going to complain about our employer not letting us go home early and their office doesn't provide me with air conditioning. Or we can go. This is like going to the gym.
Like, you go to the gym to hurt yourself in the. In the assumption that you're going to be stronger tomorrow and that you can hurt yourself again tomorrow, but you can lift more.
So, yeah. So, like, no, use this as an opportunity to build your tenacity, your endurance, your perseverance, so that the next time it's even hotter or the next time something else hard happens, you go, no, I've done this before. I Know that my body can take it. I know that mentally, I can take it. Let's go.
So just trying to get away from the. Like, we have to be defensive, because I think that defensive mentality and being the victim, they're part and parcel.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Yes. Well. And it's two things, I think.
I think one is it's taking responsibility for yourself. The only thing you can actually take responsibility for, you can say, I think by default, I'm the victim, which says, this is somebody else's fault. Okay? And while maybe in some sense that's true in the specific circumstance that they may be referring to in that moment, okay, great. But you can't do anything about them.
The only thing that you have control over is you.
And so your job is to say, I'm gonna take responsibility for myself, my positioning where I am right now, and I'm gonna steer it a particular direction. I'm gonna push it in a particular direction. So I would say take responsibility, and then I would also say cultivate a disposition of joy.
Like, that's a huge deal. Okay? So I can say incredibly hard things to my employees, but I can do it with a smile on my face and a pat on the back and say, it's okay, man. We're gonna keep going. Don't worry about it. Just put your head down, fix this hot slop that you just made, and let's get back to work again. And I can do the same thing with people that I don't know. I can say, hey, I completely disagree with the idea that you have here. I can say it like a mean guy with furrowed brow.
I can do it like that. Or I can just say, hey, I think that's a terrible idea, and laugh with them about. About it and be like, let me explain to you why I think that's a terrible idea. And I find that that's incredibly disarming to people.
I can say true things to them.
That would be hurtful. That could be normally like. Because part of what's going on in our world today is folks don't know how to disagree anymore. And the assumption that is any type of disagreement is just angering and triggering and belittling. And it's like, it doesn't have to be that way.
But if you cultivate an attitude of joy, you'd be surprised at how much you can say to the people around you and how much more I should say it. That way they'll receive and be willing to continue that conversation. You can do it. It's very hard through the written word because text is so obtuse.
It's much easier in either like a face to face or an audio or something like that. I think that's more effective. But yeah, so I would say take responsibility and cultivate an attitude of joy and then get to work.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:26:27] Speaker A: Well, Tom, I think we're out of time today. Any parting words?
[00:26:35] Speaker B: Build stuff.
[00:26:37] Speaker A: Amen. You can just build stuff. You can just do it. Amen, guys. Thank you all so much for listening to another episode of A Brit and the Yank Talk Business.
We're back and hopefully we'll be dropping more and more episodes in the future. If you've got things that you would like us to talk about, you can send them to us, submit them to us, put them in the comments, and we'd be happy to do so. Also coming soon, a Brit and a Yank website. All right, I'm not going to say any more than that.
Thank you guys so much for listening and we'll see you all next time.
